Connected

Giarne

I Keep moving. I'm trying to. I'm trying to nurse my microphone in the most comfortable way.

Kimmy

Yeah, I know in the most sustainable, economically sustainable.

Giarne

There we go.

Speaker 3

It's like I'm nursing a baby now.

Kimmy

You are? Yeah. And it's kind of just resting. So I feel like you've you've got a much better.

Giarne

What happened? Breastfeeding my microphone and you just.

Kimmy

I just finished breastfeeding. Yes. Yeah. How long did you breastfeed?

Giarne

I breast OK, I breasted. For two years, 10 months and I even worked it out down to the number of days

Kimmy

Give it to me.

Giarne

1043 days. I think I think I had such. When I was pregnant, I had such ideas that I was going to be cool about breastfeeding. I was gonna be like, you know what, if I can do it great. And if? I can't then. Whatever. And then I had. My baby. And it's interesting how many mums I talked. To you about this, actually who they're like. Oh, yeah. When I was pregnant, it wasn't going to. Matter whether I breastfeed or not. And then I had a baby, and suddenly it mattered. Did you did you just feed your kids at all? Can you?

Kimmy

I did breastfeed my kids. Yeah, both of them.

Giarne

Did you have a feeling that, like between pregnancy and then when you had your child that it changed how you felt?

Kimmy

Yes, but not in the same way that you did. So I was really focused on breastfeeding, yes, and I really wanted that experience. With with my, when I was pregnant with my first son, I remember having months where I was really nervous that I wouldn't. Be able to do it, or that I wouldn't enjoy it. And I think I got that belief because my mum didn't enjoy breastfeeding us and it was a story that. We've been told. And also I've got really sensitive *******, so.

Speaker 3

You're like, oh, my gosh, what's gonna happen? Well.

Kimmy

I would if they were an essential part of my sexuality. Yes, and what is going to happen? Will I lose sensitivity? Will they be stretched out to an inch? Like literally they are?

Giarne

Will it still be a sexual experience for you when you want it to be?

Kimmy

Yeah, and it was quite a thorough journey after the breastfeeding, but it impacted.

Giarne

Yes, it did. It did. Impact. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Actually. I no longer see my breasts in the same way. I think it definitely changes things. I think there's lots of, like, talking media and and just generally in society about how breastfeeding makes. Your ***** saggy. Or and interestingly. Did you know that it's not? It's actually pregnancy and the hormones that make a difference. Really. Yeah. That the breastfeeding itself is not necessarily the cause. The hormones have changed the.

Kimmy

Elasticity. Wow. Well, I my boots were too small to be saggy, so I'm really. Really curious to hear about your breastfeeding experience.

Giarne

Yeah, there is a.

Kimmy

It sounds like there's a story.

Giarne

Yes. And I haven't told. You this yet so this is. Brilliant. Yeah. OK. So I was very. I was formula fed I my. Number I started for. Six weeks with me, we're not. Going all the way back to. The start, by the way, I'm just saying. I was born. And she went back to work. And so I was formula fed. For six weeks. And so in my growing up, it wasn't like breast feeding feeding was talked about much. I don't remember my brother being breastfed. I don't remember my cousins, but I know that when I was pregnant, I was like, I want to try, but I'm not heartbroken if it doesn't work. I didn't feel like like I, you know, I. Did some breastfeeding stuff in antenatal classes, but I didn't go out and actively search more information. I even bought bottles to have on hand for if it didn't work out and I bought it in a formula too. So I was like right, I'm covered or. I was very anxious pregnant person. I've covered if it if it. All goes South and then I have my daughter. And she was early, so she was a 36 weeker and one of the last reflexes for babies to develop is actually their sock reflex. So we had a lot of trouble with breastfeeding. So she was in special care for about 6 weeks. And I went from feeling quite ambivalent about breastfeeding. Two, the only thing I can do for my child is feed her. She's not with me. She doesn't even really feel like mine. And the only opportunities I had to hold. To feed her, she was under the jaundice lights. So I suddenly became very obsessed with breastfeeding.

Kimmy

Yeah. So the meaning of.

Giarne

Breastfeeding it changed, changed. Yeah. It became very almost synonymous with being a. Mum, like in order to. Be mum, I have to feed. Another a number of girlfriends who have also had challenges with breastfeeding and have talked about how they felt a shift in. I didn't care. Too much. I didn't think I cared and maybe. Maybe it is that we actually. Did care, but we were frightened that. Maybe wouldn't work out so. Like, let's let's lower our expectations. Before we get there. And then it was. It was hotter than I thought it would be. This thing that was supposed to be natural.

Speaker

And I think.

Giarne

I think we downplay the. Pressure that birth can put on your body.

Kimmy

Ohh 100% yeah and. Physical body. Yes, your whole cells.

Giarne

Absolutely. I really do believe that when we have our baby, they're not the only thing that's born that. Day like a.

Kimmy

No. Yeah.

Giarne

Mother's born and I am not the person I was before I had children, child. And I'm so glad. I'm so glad I'm.

Speaker

Right.

Kimmy

Not. Yeah. Tell me more about that. What? Makes you glad.

Giarne

I have changed in ways I didn't know I needed to change, and I remember going into being a parent thinking, Yep, I've done therapy. I've worked on my **** like we're good.

Speaker

And whilst I was.

Giarne

Glad that we didn't have my daughter until we did. I there was something about when you become a parent. That puts things into a different perspective. So I suddenly viewed my own experience of being parented differently. I suddenly had a opinion about parenting styles and parenting in. A way that I'd never had before. And I suddenly had an opinion about how would I raise my child so that their experiences were either different than mine, or there were things that I passed on that I wanted them to to be passed on. But in terms of breastfeeding, yeah, it really it blew my mind how much I became attached to it. So I I power pumped.

Kimmy

It's power pumping.

Giarne

You pump every. It's very intense actually. Yeah, sounds it. Yeah. So she lost weight and we were probably discharged a little prematurely from hospital at day six. I was desperate to get. And then, because she'd had an Ng tube and then it had been removed without having a sacrifi ox fully established, I think, and essentially my supply wasn't up to the stress of the whole experience. Anyway. We ended up back in hospital and one of the recommendations from lactation nurse was if you want to boost your. Supply power pump so. Every three hours from the start of the feed, so you might go right? It's 3:00 in the afternoon. We're gonna breastfeed. We're gonna do 10 minutes on each breast and then baby's going to get a set amount of top up, which is usually based on how many days old and so many meals. She gets a top up bottle if we've got enough express breast milk, she gets that. If she doesn't, we do formula and then I pump for 10 minutes on either side. And now that whole process. So you got probably about 20 minutes. Breastfeed might take 20. Minutes to get. A bottle 20 minutes to pump and then you start again. In the start of the feed, so two hours later. So in that two hour gap you've got the opportunity to cuddle your baby, have a shower. Feed yourself sleep. Rinse, repeat 24 hours around the clock.

Kimmy

What impact did that have? Were you and also your relationship?

Giarne

I felt like our newborn bubble popped like there's there was this beautiful little like six or seven day period between when we got discharged, when we got readmitted. And I remember being like, oh, this is the love bubble. Like, this is the good. Stuff. This is why people have babies. And and I. Was there, like, I'm so glad. I did this and and having then Oh my gosh, my child is now starving and her body is. Shutting down and. Well, I now no longer care how she gets food. I just want her to have food. So it's sort of also changed the relationship with breastfeeding. But in terms of each other, I think there was, it was actually unifying in some ways because particularly for dads, it can be really hard to be a part of the breastfeeding process like. They want to be supportive. At the same time, it's not a lot they. Too, but in this case there was so he could clean the pump parts. He could get the express breast milk ready. He could feed the bottle so that I could pump, which meant we shortened. The whole process. He could burp the baby. It sort of. It also gave him connection opportunities and not to say that, you know, if breastfeeding goes really well, that dads. Can't still connect with newborns like they totally can. But I think for us. Yeah, I felt like it was. Unifying. Yeah, I think at 1.0, it's funny. I have to see if I can upload a photo at some point. We were doing SNS feeding. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. So essentially, you have a little tube that you put in besides the baby latches and mimicking to my breast here.

Speaker 3

Sorry, just saying.

Kimmy

Now I'm looking at you.

Speaker 3

The baby. So baby laugh.

Giarne

And then you have. Like a little tiny tube that sort of like you wiggle in beside their latch without getting them to unlatch and now granted, at this point, you and baby don't know what. You're doing so getting a good latch. Is hard enough for the best of times, so you wiggle in this tiny little tube and the tubes connected to a bottle or a syringe of the express milk. So baby gets extra top up that they need. And your breast gets stimulated to produce more milk is, I don't know you you probably know, but I don't know. That's not assume that your breasts aren't just like a cup that you fill up and then empty. That you have to. Yeah, yeah. All the stimulation of all the stimulation of the *******. Was positive, so yeah, it was.

Speaker 3

It was just so we had a.

Kimmy

Are we still talking breastfeeding? Yeah.

Giarne

Yes. Well, I mean, a double entendre, definitely. It was not sexual experience, I can assure you. Yeah. So, like, baby latches, I'm there. I've got the little syringes at this point, our proper SNS kit hadn't arrived. We got an Ng tube that we were using as a temporary.

Kimmy

And mine was tonight. I thank goodness.

Giarne

Thing how he's been trying to, like, delicately twist this little tube in along the edge of my ******. But my ******* are sensitive and sore, so it's. Like I'm like ow. And then I'm, like, don't unlatch her and. Then ohh man. You just picture it. It was a vision. No one told me how much nudity would be involved postpartum. It's not of the baby. It was all me. So yeah, that was. That was that breastfeeding experience, but yes, so obviously we we eventually got there cause two years, 10 months. 1043 days, yeah, so.

Kimmy

What are your? What's your relationship with your breasts? Now I know your early days.

Giarne

Yeah, yeah, it feels really nice to have my body be my body. I think I was very ready to be done by the time we opted to Wayne, I think. Very much hoped that she would. Self win and I wouldn't have to make that decision. However, that is not parenting, nor has that been my parenting experience for just about anything. I've had to take that. But yes, in this case I opted to decide. No, I want my body back and I'm done. And so I don't know yet if I feel like. I don't know that I would want my breast. Touched in like in any. Other way, I sort of still feel a. Little bit touched out kind of experience. But I'm looking forward to my body feeling more like mine again.

Kimmy

And it will. It takes some time, but it definitely does.

Giarne

Yeah, I think that'll be. Something to look forward to.

Kimmy

And you're still getting used to them feeling differently, too. Like you'll be having a loss of some sensations and maybe a return of some others over the over the next few months.

Giarne

Absolutely. It's interesting. We were having lunch and I was. Watching a little. Girl playing down the Esplanade today and I was looking I. Was going ohh. Looks like my. Girl, I wonder if she's the same age and like previously. When I was earlier in my breastfeeding journey, I would then like feel the wet down. Yeah, and I like. Sort of felt. Tingling and I was like, OK, maybe. The surprise is not completely gone, didn't have the. Full like full let down, but I definitely felt. I was like, OK, so. The oxytocin still still there. And yeah, I know some women have it for years. And they can still express milk.

Kimmy

I could still express droplets, I would say for at least. Six months at least. Yeah, and I didn't breastfeed for that long. Yeah. So I breastfed my first son for six months and the doctor asked me to stop because I'd lost so much weight eating this beautiful little baby. I was looking anorexic, seriously underweight, well under 50 KG's. And I'm 168cm tall, so it. Was pretty phenomenal. And he was fading. Oh, every two hours. If I was lucky, sometimes more frequently, and I took for granted that I could breastfeed. Really feed really easily. Up until the point where I had to stop. And it was. Such an emotional journey to stop I've heard about. I felt like, really.

Giarne

That for some.

Kimmy

A lot of shame. And a bit of failure that. Yeah. So it was that if that was really interesting.

Giarne

Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of women who have to stop before they were maybe ready. And I think that's actually why I kept going so long because I was frightened. I wasn't ready yet. And would I regret it later. I don't know that I wanted to go as long as I like. I never started out to want to go that long and there's definitely a lot of stigma around breastfeeding beyond one. Yeah, but I think you're spot on. There's a lot of emotions around. It's kind of like the you're damned if you're doing. You damned if you. Don't. Aren't you like?

Kimmy

Well, there's stigma if you stop breastfeeding before 1. Love this magic number that you have to attain to not. Yeah. Get stigma. Yeah.

Giarne

Yeah, absolutely.

Kimmy

Yeah, I'm. I'm really interested to hear more about your experiences of stigma around breastfeeding for as long as you did.

Giarne

Remembers reading. Particularly after she turned one, I had a lot of people ask, are you gonna stop soon or when are you planning to stop or even how long are you planning to? Do that for. I even have. My dad at one point we booked a he booked a family trip over to Lady Elliott Island. And and they have like a little plane to get over there. And I was like, oh, that'll be fine. I'll breastfeed on taking and land off. That'd be great for her ears. And he's like, oh, you won't be doing that. She'll be 18 months old by. Then and I was like try. Me. Like. We'll see. She's not showing any signs. Of not wanting this now. And in the end, I think there's been. So many blessings. Before having done it for so long, like all the immune benefits that happen for children or after one the breast milk actually changes. So it's essentially like a living. Living product like when you put the cells under a microscope, they change and if you took samples of breast milk at a baby at six months old and then a child at 2, the immune properties are higher in the breast milk for a child. That's two, which is just so fascinating. So I think I sort of like we hit that first 12 months of daycare. And I was like. I'm not stopping now because. Like if this has got any chance of. Helping everyone get healthy again. Please God.

Kimmy

I know that first 12 months is really difficult, isn't it?

Giarne

So rough and I. Think part of it was also. She had reflux and so a lot of our feeding was actually. Feeding and I think there's so many benefits to breastfeeding that are outside of just nutritional. It was very much a connection and a comfort thing. And we also I could talk for ages, but we have to do another episode about sleep and breastfeeding and the impact it has on sleep for mum and baby. Everybody's surviving. Yeah. But I do know. I have a couple of really close girlfriends who walked into breastfeeding with the intention that they were gonna breastfeed for as long as their child wanted and their child didn't want it. After nine months, self weaned and the devastation and grief with that. That came Ora, who were so keen to feed, and it just was not the right choice for them and their. Family like mental health and a happy, healthy mum comes first. Over breastfeeding.

Kimmy

I agree.

Giarne

So yeah, it's a it's a loaded topic, but I I think it's improving. People are talking about it. More did you? Ever get anyone make a comment about your breastfeeding in public, or should I ask, did?

Kimmy

Oh I I breastfed everywhere I breastfed on the Mekong delta in Vietnam in a tiny little canoe I breastfed everywhere. I was discreet about it but didn't ever use one of the cover up cloth.

Giarne

You breastfeed in public.

Kimmy

Yeah, I didn't get any comments directly made to me.

Speaker

Little looks.

Kimmy

Thanks, I got a lot of. Books. Yeah, I think I was just so focused on my babies. Yeah. And being able to just give them what they needed at that moment.

Giarne

The connection part of breastfeeding too.

Kimmy

Yeah. And I'd lost a sense of my breasts being anything sexual or taboo because at that point the the function of my breasts was to feed my baby.

Giarne

They're just a body part, like an.

Kimmy

Arm. Yeah, precisely. Not that I would, you know, wave my ***** around in the air like. I just don't care. No.

Speaker 3

OK.

Kimmy

No, but I just had a different. Had a different sense and interestingly, usually I'm very careful not to over sexualize myself in the way that I dress and act. In public. And so it's really curious for me to experience myself as being very comfortable feeding.

Giarne

Yeah, babies. Yeah. I felt that too. I think every woman has the right to wear whatever the hell they want to wear for their body. And they should feel confident in that totally.

Kimmy

And then me.

Giarne

Personally, I feel uncomfortable in really short dresses like my hems. I prefer them to be like where I feel comfortable. And I think that your comfort should be based on you, but I'm not that person either. Like I'm not the low cut and the short outfits, and yet same. I always like my I'm not uncomfortable with doing this because this is not for anybody other than my child. And I didn't. Use. I think I used cover ups. Maybe within the first month and by that stage I was like, this is a pain in the ****.

Kimmy

Ohh, the logistical nightmare and you're so tired. Like the coordination involved in.

Giarne

100%.

Kimmy

It was beyond me, unfortunately, cause my babies didn't sleep, so I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna get you fed. Absolutely. And I think from a very practical person, it was. It's just a very practical thing to do. OK, there's this task that needs to be done. My baby has a need. I'm just gonna. Get it done.

Giarne

I remember my dad being quite uncomfortable at first. And being like, oh, I'll give you privacy. And I'm like, Dad, it's fine. It does not bother me in this. Like it's a. Bit like birth. Isn't it? How? Like you're sort of. There. And you're like nudity. What nudity? Yeah. Fascinating.

Kimmy

Yeah, I've got one last question about breastfeeding and that is what was your favorite breastfeeding memory?

Giarne

I don't know if I have one took a lot of photos and stuff of the journey because I think having a rocky start I. I valued it so much for the period of time that we would have it so. One of their local photographers, she's incredible. She had breastfeeding photo shoots. So I think I did maybe 3. Of those. Ohh. At different ages, and I'm so glad I did. And. We both had to sleep a lot. And that was not game move so. I took a lot of. Those photos, I don't know. That I have one specific memory. It's just like sort of a warm fuzzy feeling you get. Like I remember our last feed and just sort of sitting there and savoring it and like the feel of their little body against yours and. And yeah, I just have special bodies that there's no other person. Well, for me that has had that experience between like mother and child. Yeah. Yeah. Just a nice warm fuzzy. Connected feeling.